HI, thanks for your reply, I have spent several hours daily running through different possible causes, cant say that the debug on eclipse helps me at all. it just runs like normal.
I'm not one to care what people put in their signatures, unfortunately I fall into a category a "Kinesthetic learner". so anyone that goes and says learn has no idea of how difficult it is.
I'm not looking for all the answers, just pointers, it's nothing new what i'm looking for, it's just rare to find anything that has been done recently.