Gas

[wilcomega]

so, we have reaced the point now that minecraft has an extensive collection of matter in the form of solid and liquid, mods add a bunch of liquids too, it all plays nice. but matter has 3 main categories( 4 if you count plasma ), solid, liquid and gas.

 

i think minecraft forge should add in the support for gas, because right now there are a few mods out there that have a gas system but as usual, if minecraft forge would make it would be much more stable.

 

this gas would not only be used for transfer between machines, i am seeing a vent wich lets gas into the air. like a toxic gas that will hurt or kill people in it. of course the gas would just float off(disappear) if you dont contain it. so build a room with a door and a vent, trick your firned and get him in there. turn on the gas and have a fantastic time!

 

this was just 1 example of whats possible. maybe the galacticraft mod will use this system instead of their "not so stable" oxygen system right now

let me know what you think!

 

PS sorry if this has already been suggested, but maybe i added extra content to the idea or made it more clear.

[LexManos]

Is gas not but a liquid with a lot of air?

[wilcomega]

with most mods like railcraft yes. but i have also seen 1 mod, cant remeber the name. wich implemented gas itself, but i think it would in general be better and more stable if you guys did it.

[luisc99]

I'm pretty sure there is, or used to be, a function for liquids called .isGaseous(true) to define them as a gas. What is majorly different between gasses and liquids anyway?

[Abastro]

I'm pretty sure there is, or used to be, a function for liquids called .isGaseous(true) to define them as a gas. What is majorly different between gasses and liquids anyway?

 

There is significant difference between gasses and liquids.

Gases cannot be something like transparent liquid or a liquid with a lot of air.

 

Gas has following properties:

 

1. Gas diffuses through the air if there is no barrier.

the diffusion velocity is dependent on the temperature and the molar mass of the gas.

 

2. Gas can get 'Buoyancy' which is same as the weight of air with the same volume.

(More Explanations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy)

So the Gases lighter than air would float up to the end of the sky,

while the rest would sink down to the ground.

 

So, the behavior of gases are significantly different from those of liquids.

But I think that "isGaseous" only controls the rendering of the gas.

There should be separate classes for the behavior of gases.

 

So, I support this suggestion.

[LexManos]

Gases cannot be something like transparent liquid or a liquid with a lot of air.

Pretty sure a gas is a very spacious liquid.

Gas has following properties:

1. Gas diffuses through the air if there is no barrier.

Like liquid flows on the ground

the diffusion velocity is dependent on the temperature and the molar mass of the gas.

Like the viscosity of a liquid

2. Gas can get 'Buoyancy' which is same as the weight of air with the same volume.

(More Explanations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy)

So the Gases lighter than air would float up to the end of the sky,

Like a liquid with a negative desnsity.

while the rest would sink down to the ground.

Like standard liquids.

So, the behavior of gases are significantly different from those of liquids.

You've yet to tell me anything that can't be represented as a liquid, or well, fluid, as gasses can be fluid.

But I think that "isGaseous" only controls the rendering of the gas.

There should be separate classes for the behavior of gases.

Why? Seems people are able to make gasses just fine with the fluid system and nothing you have said requires any special gas code...

[Abastro]

Gases cannot be something like transparent liquid or a liquid with a lot of air.

Pretty sure a gas is a very spacious liquid.

Of course not. A gas can fill every available space if there is plenty of time.

 

Gas has following properties:

1. Gas diffuses through the air if there is no barrier.

Like liquid flows on the ground

No, flowing has a limit. But diffusion has no limit, and a gas can diffuse infinitely if it exists.

and a gas can be spread to every directions.

 

the diffusion velocity is dependent on the temperature and the molar mass of the gas.

Like the viscosity of a liquid

Yes, It is macroscopically similar. but not microscopically.

 

2. Gas can get 'Buoyancy' which is same as the weight of air with the same volume.

(More Explanations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy)

So the Gases lighter than air would float up to the end of the sky,

Like a liquid with a negative desnsity.

No. The gases lighter than air don't float up directly, but they also spreads to side while floating.

And I have to say that every material gets Buoyancy. I had mistaken there.

 

while the rest would sink down to the ground.

Like standard liquids.

No. The rest can spread infinitely, and they can also spread to up.

 

So, the behavior of gases are significantly different from those of liquids.

You've yet to tell me anything that can't be represented as a liquid, or well, fluid, as gasses can be fluid.

Since I selected wrong terms at then. I had been missing the term ''infinitely".

 

But I think that "isGaseous" only controls the rendering of the gas.

There should be separate classes for the behavior of gases.

Why? Seems people are able to make gasses just fine with the fluid system and nothing you have said requires any special gas code...

Of course they could, but they had to hard-code.

Also, the Buoyancy and Gravitation effect for fluids was ignored or determined at the coder's option.

So, the mods including custom gravitation effect would be hard to be compatible with them.

[LexManos]

Alright, seince you are not getting the point.

The answer is NO.

In Minecraft None of the things you are speaking of can be sanely created. The best aproximation of a gas would be to behave like a fluid {which gasses do btw.. fluid != liquid}

No way in hell we're putting in microscopic gas simulation into Forge... there is no reason to.

[Abastro]

Alright, seince you are not getting the point.

The answer is NO.

In Minecraft None of the things you are speaking of can be sanely created. The best aproximation of a gas would be to behave like a fluid {which gasses do btw.. fluid != liquid}

No way in hell we're putting in microscopic gas simulation into Forge... there is no reason to.

You are not getting my point. the "microscopic" cannot be the point.

Of course I surely know that it is impossible to simulate microscopic gas or anything.

I wanted to say that, macroscopic behaviors of gas are far apart from the behaviors of liquids.

Also they are far apart from those of the fluids in Minecraft Forge, too.

The behaviors are:

1. They spreads to every directions. They always spreads to the sides, and gravitation or buoyancy cannot forbid them from spreading up or down.

2. Their spreading velocity is affected by the temperature, and forces like gravitation or buoyancy.

but they cannot prohibit the diffusion of gas.

 

Also, I know that this can be sanely created.

 

This is the best approximation of a gas:

1. Set the pressure value for each gas block.

2. Calculate the diffusion rate for each pair of neighboring gas blocks.

Forces like Gravitation or Buoyancy might affect the diffusion velocity via direction.

3. If there is empty space adjacent to a gas block with plenty of pressure,

sets the empty space to a gas block. pressure should be determined by diffusion.

[loordgek]

get a pressure standard (edit this is the thing where forge is for)

so a gas added by buildcraft can be stored in railcraft pressurize tanks

[LexManos]

Im still not seeing anything that can't be done with the current implementation of the fluid registry, and possibly a custom in-world block.

Again, review things like RC's Steam which is a gas, or any other mod that has already added a gas type in-world block.

They are nothing special, and from Forge's port of view, there is no reason to make special accommodations for them.

So what are you asking?

That I write the implementation of the in-world gas block to your specs? Why? You know better how you want yours to behave. Go do it.

[Abastro]

Im still not seeing anything that can't be done with the current implementation of the fluid registry, and possibly a custom in-world block.

Again, review things like RC's Steam which is a gas, or any other mod that has already added a gas type in-world block.

They are nothing special, and from Forge's port of view, there is no reason to make special accommodations for them.

So what are you asking?

That I write the implementation of the in-world gas block to your specs? Why? You know better how you want yours to behave. Go do it.

There are problems with fluid block interface, etc. They are from the differences between fluids and gases.

Since pressure of a gas can be bigger till it becomes liquid,

the "getFilledPercentage" is not appropriate.

I saw that the behavior of gas can be made with current forge,

but I think it would be better if there is something like BlockGasBase.

(I can make a pullrequest about that)

 

Also, I want custom Gravitation & Buoyancy effects for the fluids.

I think that the vertical flow would be affected by gravitation of a world,

But there were nothing like that in the BlockFluidBase..

[sequituri]

For a really realistic system, a block material would consist of a state of matter, or more realistically, a set of temperature points like freezing, melting, and plasma ignition. Then, the block instance could just have a field (but of course this would require more than a nibble of metadata) that included it's temperature (which determines its matter state). Water could freeze or even become steam...

Naturally, this would be a major rework of MC, so it would never fly as a suggestion.

If we include gases, then we should justify including plasmas too.?

[Abastro]

For a really realistic system, a block material would consist of a state of matter, or more realistically, a set of temperature points like freezing, melting, and plasma ignition. Then, the block instance could just have a field (but of course this would require more than a nibble of metadata) that included it's temperature (which determines its matter state). Water could freeze or even become steam...

Naturally, this would be a major rework of MC, so it would never fly as a suggestion.

If we include gases, then we should justify including plasmas too.?

 

No, there is a several differences between them.

1) Forge already supports Gas.

  There is a method named 'isGaseous()' in the Fluid class which affects the rendering.

  I think it means that the Minecraft Forge intends to add Gas system.

  But of course, anything like Plasma is NOT supported.

2) Gas is one of the three fundamental and well known phases.

  Maybe it is hard to be notified, but it is as important as Solid and Liquid. Also it has many differences with them.

    In contrast, Plasma could be one of the four fundamental phase, but it is a lot similar to the gas.

  It acts like Ideal Gas, and except for the ionization and high temperature, it is actually a gas.

  Also, Plasma is not well known as Solid, Liquid, and Gas. It can only be created under control, not like others.

[MysteriousDark]

Gases should be implemented. I saw in one of direwolfs videos where he used the endertank to move RC steam.

 

Is that really practical.

[Abastro]

Yes, for there are some differences. Gases can be compressed nearly infinitely in limited space, before they become condensed.

It is significantly different, I think.

[LexManos]

In a minecraft world, the only real way to simulate gas is that same way to emulate fluids.

So from a forge end, there needs no implementation/api change.

I am not a moron, I know my physics. However in programming, and in a minecraft sense, THERE is no difference!

If you REALLY care, implement it yourself and make a PR.

Explain yourself in code why things are required to be explicitly separated from fluids.

Thread closed because repetitive, If need me and you get a PR going, i'll re-open.