Okay Lex wants an organized FAQ from us fans...

 

I'll start it, and I'll edit the post with any popular questions and add in LexManos's answers as he gives them!

 

Mod edit: I will make this very clear. Keep all posts CIVIL. No mud throwing. This thread will be watched by me (and the other mods, maybe?).

 

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Questions for the Forge Team / LexManos

 

 

 

1) Do we have any indication thus far about whether or not Microsoft intends to allow modding to continue?

From their history, this does not bode well for Modding. However, 1.8 and below is already out. Worst case scenario we stick on these versions alone. And then continue modding until MS sues me to stop. {This is a real possibility, not just fear mongering}

 

2) What are some side effects that you foresee from Microsoft's acquisition of Minecraft?

For the average user? larger pushes to realms, and WinMob. For modders.. Possible complete architecture changes and destruction of the modding ecosystem as we know it.

 

3) As the players who love Forge and Minecraft modding so much, what can we do to help?

I have made it no secret, Forge is my sole source of income. And the only way I can continue doing it is if that income maintains enough to cover costs.

On the other side, you can help by helping to address things like tech support questions. As you can imagine, my workload is daunting right now. Having some people step up and take over the mind numbing 'Have you tried turning it off and on again' type of questions would be emensely helpful.

 

4) ) Can I haz Cookie?

But.. I need cookiez.. and beer... lots and lots of beer u.u

 

5) Do you think that Microsoft will speed up development of Minecraft updates?

This I can not say, what they will probably do is spend the next section of time pumping out a WinMob version of Minecraft and then start pimping the shit out of it. Remember that the core development team is still working on the PC version. Atleast for the time being. So the PC version *might* remain the same for ~1 more update.

 

6) What does this mean for the 'Modding API' that never came about?

You'll notice that NONE of the Press Releases or announcements said ANYTHING about the modding scene. Even tho Forge alone makes up 60% of the client install base. I doubt there will be any API ever coming out within the next 4 years.

 

7) Will you be taking over FML?

Yes, With cpw stepping down from the project. FML falls to me. What does this mean for FML? Not to much there was major refactoring planned for 1.8 anyways to move it more in line with the Forge side of the project. However with him leaving it just increases my work load. I am currently trying to train a real life friend up on how to develop for FML/Forge to potentially help me with this. But.. it's a transition state. Things will take a while.

For now 1.7.10 should be your target until at least January.

 

Who from our modding community is done? (Already announced)

This is not a question for me, as I do not speak for other modders. From the 'Forge Team' cpw is the only one who has officially announced he is stepping down.

 

9) Do you think the Bukkit devs would be willing to team up and create an API that combines the benefits of Forge and Bukkit?

1) The bukkit devs and Forge don't get along, I will refrain from going into detail as it's just drama.

2) Before the MS rumors/announcement. After Bukkit's DMCA. myself, and a lot of community leaders from Bukkit related projects got together to decide how to proceed. Sponge was the result of these discussions. A Abstraction layer built similar to Bukkit built on top of Forge. This is just the logical decision as Forge provides a more stable and expandable system then vanilla. And gives everyone the access to do base edits without having to ship Mojang {Now Microsoft} code.

HOWEVER, it is suffering from a 'too many chiefs' syndrome. And with me having to step back and address FML/Forge myself. I do not have high hopes for it. As I already see it crumbling.

 

There will be something, but not anything soon that would be worth working on.

 

10) Are you going to stop working on Forge / anything minecraft related?

At this time, I have no plans to stop. Forge is very important to me for many reasons. The main thing tho, is that with fewer people to help me it will take me more time. As I will be taking more frequent breaks to try and find/train helpers.

 

11) How do you feel about the Microsoft takeover?

I have mixed feelings, this could be bad, or it could be status quo for me. Microsoft could come in and wave it's lawyers around and destroy me. Or they can wait a year or two until they have a replacement in place before doing that. Only time will tell which road they go down.

 

12) Do you think the change will hold back modded minecraft? will it hold us to an older version say 1.8 ?

I am of two minds on this one. The changes in 1.8 are massive, but they have use. They may be partially implemented/broken, but Forge is no stranger to fixing where Mojang leaves off. This has been how modding has gone for the last 2 years. My plan is to continue updating for as many MC versions as I can until Microsoft stops me. So that when it ends, the MC community has all the best MC and Forge features available to them. And when that time comes, the more options modders/users have the better. So ya.. I hope this does not hold any modders back from updating. But it's the community a strong breeze could hold 1/2 of them back

 

13) How do you feel about all the “big shot” modders leaving the modding-scene?

Modding for most people is a hobby, if it no-longer becomes enjoyable, there is no reason not to leave. As a fellow programmer I respect their wishes and wish them nothing but luck in the future. However if they DO have a large project I would HOPE they either leave it in someone else's hands, or leave it as open source in the community. So we don't have shit like RedPower and that dissapearing act -.-

 

14) How does it feel to be the only real modding platform left? (With bukkit going away)

It makes me want to run away screaming. Because of the shear amount of work that I have to do. It was convenient having Bukkit there because a abstraction layer IS 100% NEEDED for this community. Bukkit and Forge lived in harmony for the most part. I did not need to provide that solution because it already existed. Now that it is gone Forge needs to put something in its place. And that is a massive amount of work -.- The Sponge Project is trying to do something along those lines, however the more I see how it is going, the more I don't like it. It's the standard "Too many chiefs not enough indians" problem.

 

15) Do you think Microsoft would buy Forge or other modding platforms, like Mojang  did with Bukkit?

I HIGHLY doubt it, Why pay for something you get for free and have the ability to retroactively destroy when your new solution is ready? The major difference here, is that Microsoft has the talent {well the money to buy the talent} and the experience to pull off a plugin system. Mojang did not. They tried to acquire the talent by acquiring Bukkit. It didn't quite work out.

 

16) What will happen if Microsoft decides to move Minecraft to a different programming language?

Depends on the language. It would almost garentee to destroy modding. MC being in Java is one of it's STRONGEST assets. Java is easily linked against/decompiled. Java is a rather simple and forgiving language as well so it allows a lot of kids to become 'modders' {see my rants on how most modders are not programmers u.u different story} All of these 'modders' would die off because any other system/language would be too hard. You'd come back to a community with a few REALLY awesome mods. And almost no minor ones.

 

 

 

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Regardless of how this all shakes out... We love you Minecraft Forge team, you have made playing Minecraft with mods some of the most fun I have ever had, and I speak for the whole community when I say we will miss the fun we've had the past few years if Microsoft borks things over.

 

Long Live Forge!

I've put together this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_2WHr7_5LyJ6XrXFGwoLkSZHWz-IB5xkH8L41-jJMGg/edit?usp=sharing Might get some questions out of there to use.

That document is locked down for too much traffic, says Google when I clicked on it.. Might wanna stick to the forums...

Oh well, got a few questions out of it.

 

Are you going to stop working on Forge / anything minecraft related?

 

How do you feel about the Microsoft takeover?

 

Do you think the change will hold back modded minecraft? will it hold us to an older version say 1.8 ?

 

How do you feel about all the “big shot” modders leaving the modding-scene?

 

How does it feel to be the only real modding platform left? (With bukkit going away)

 

Do you think Microsoft would buy Forge or other modding platforms, like Mojang  did with Bukkit?

 

What will happen if Microsoft decides to move Minecraft to a different programming language?

 

Slightly edited by me for better phrasing.

1) Do we have any indication thus far about whether or not Microsoft intends to allow modding to continue?

From their history, this does not bode well for Modding. However, 1.8 and below is already out. Worst case scenario we stick on these versions alone. And then continue modding until MS sues me to stop. {This is a real possibility, not just fear mongering}

 

2) What are some side effects that you foresee from Microsoft's acquisition of Minecraft?

For the average user? larger pushes to realms, and WinMob. For modders.. Possible complete architecture changes and destruction of the modding ecosystem as we know it.

 

3) As the players who love Forge and Minecraft modding so much, what can we do to help?

I have made it no secret, Forge is my sole source of income. And the only way I can continue doing it is if that income maintains enough to cover costs.

On the other side, you can help by helping to address things like tech support questions. As you can imagine, my workload is daunting right now. Having some people step up and take over the mind numbing 'Have you tried turning it off and on again' type of questions would be emensely helpful.

) Can I haz Cookie?

But.. I need cookiez.. and beer... lots and lots of beer u.u

 

5) Do you think that Microsoft will speed up development of Minecraft updates?

This I can not say, what they will probably do is spend the next section of time pumping out a WinMob version of Minecraft and then start pimping the shit out of it. Remember that the core development team is still working on the PC version. Atleast for the time being. So the PC version *might* remain the same for ~1 more update.

6) What does this mean for the 'Modding API' that never came about?

You'll notice that NONE of the Press Releases or announcements said ANYTHING about the modding scene. Even tho Forge alone makes up 60% of the client install base. I doubt there will be any API ever coming out within the next 4 years.

 

7) Will you be taking over FML?

Yes, With cpw stepping down from the project. FML falls to me. What does this mean for FML? Not to much there was major refactoring planned for 1.8 anyways to move it more in line with the Forge side of the project. However with him leaving it just increases my work load. I am currently trying to train a real life friend up on how to develop for FML/Forge to potentially help me with this. But.. it's a transition state. Things will take a while.

For now 1.7.10 should be your target until at least January.

8 ) Who from our modding community is done? (Already announced)

This is not a question for me, as I do not speak for other modders. From the 'Forge Team' cpw is the only one who has officially announced he is stepping down.

 

9) Do you think the Bukkit devs would be willing to team up and create an API that combines the benefits of Forge and Bukkit?

1) The bukkit devs and Forge don't get along, I will refrain from going into detail as it's just drama.

2) Before the MS rumors/announcement. After Bukkit's DMCA. myself, and a lot of community leaders from Bukkit related projects got together to decide how to proceed. Sponge was the result of these discussions. A Abstraction layer built similar to Bukkit built on top of Forge. This is just the logical decision as Forge provides a more stable and expandable system then vanilla. And gives everyone the access to do base edits without having to ship Mojang {Now Microsoft} code.

HOWEVER, it is suffering from a 'too many chiefs' syndrome. And with me having to step back and address FML/Forge myself. I do not have high hopes for it. As I already see it crumbling.

 

There will be something, but not anything soon that would be worth working on.

@Lex man, tough beans as soon as I heard about this even *maybe* happening I was on edge. Really wish I was a better coder, I've got all sorts of ideas that I think could be of use, and would love to lend a hand. But, since I'm not `that guy', I suppose at least I can help with the common questions (diagnosing PEBCAK, lol).

 

All in all, I wish you (and whoever else is left on the Forge team) the best of luck and all my good wishes. This game is a bonding point between me and my little sister, and we love modded minecraft. I'd hate to see that ruined

Thanks for the answers Lex, I have a feeling that this must be a difficult time for you as you already said: you base your whole income on a very vague future at the moment. Let's hope that Microsoft does not destroy the game as many fear.

 

My estimation is that Microsoft will realize that Minecraft and its very special community is something delicate to deal with, especially since many former Mojang developers will stay to tell them. I assume they will receive some additional senior developers from the MS pool to advance the quality of the game, eventually to a state where one could call it well programmed. I am just not so sure it will still be Java once they are done.

 

Modding is something that drives this game and keeps customers happy, Microsoft would be stupid to throw that away, and I don't think that is going to happen. I could imagine two scenarios: the one that they will develop a modding API on their own (and license it) and the other that they will acquire one. Which one that would be in scenario two is obvious I think. As a business entrepreneur, maybe it might be an idea to talk to them about that scenario while they are still in the decision making process. Because, to be honest, I'd rather like to see a Forge API than any of those Microsoft nightmares.

You should probably stop development of Forge as MS is firmly against modding (hell, it is even in Xbox TOS).

From their history, this does not bode well for Modding. However, 1.8 and below is already out. Worst case scenario we stick on these versions alone. And then continue modding until MS sues me to stop. {This is a real possibility, not just fear mongering}

Can they even sue you?

We may also change this EULA from time to time but those changes will only be effective to the extent that they can legally apply. For example if you only use the Game in single player mode and don‘t use the updates we make available then the old EULA applies...

So if you stay at MC 1.8 and below I don't see how they can make you stop when the EULA that applies allows modding.

You should probably stop development of Forge as M$ is firmly against modding (hell, it is even in Xbox TOS).

modding on xbox and on pc are two different things, so i doubt xbox tos means anything for a pc game.

 

on xbox modding usually requires you to mod your xbox first, which itself is against their tos. most of the times when you mod a console, you unlock it for online cheating and piracy, and they really don't like either. doesn't help that when people think of mods on a console, it's almost always for online cheating/hacking.

 

on a pc modding is usually more true to the title, since most pc game mods are actual game modifications to add or change content, not just an invincibility hack that disrupts online play and affects other players' opinions of the game and the company that owns it.

 

So if you stay at MC 1.8 and below I don't see how they can make you stop when the EULA that applies allows modding.

it also mentions single player, probably because of its requirement of connecting to mojang/future microsoft servers. it would mean most likely every client and server having to run in offline mode, so no more skins, no uuids and such. or alternatively a custom host for those.

Microsoft is heading the plug-in API way. They don't want mods. Plug-ins are limited scope and do not cause issues with the game and crashes like mods do.

OK. Here we go. First, I can't code or program and I'm not a lawyer so I can't try to represent myself as an authority on any of this stuff but I will venture to share my opinion.

 

Microsoft may be like the evil empire of the PC world but they're not stupid. The fact that they are paying the amount they are for Mojang means they have put a LOT of thought into it. Money is the biggest motivator in the world and rich people don't throw it around without wanting a huge return on it. I said that to say this.

 

If you want a big return on MC that means you have to either hope for a quick turn and burn, screw it up with shiny things to attract masses of idiots into somehow covering the buyout until it dies, or you keep the existing community happy. They have to know that modding is integral to the MC community so I'm going out on a big-ass limb to say that I think they will be more flexible with it than they have been with other games. Exactly how that's going to play out I have no clue but if they truly know all that stuff then they have a potential PR disaster on their hands if they fuck it up for everyone. Imagine MS taking the blame for destroying the most beloved video game on the planet. Doesn't sound very good, does it?

 

I don't think we're going to get an ideal situation out of this buyout but I'm beginning to adjust my initial prediction of doom and gloom for something more realistic. I think there's going to be shitty parts and not-so-shitty parts but my end guess is that we'll still have something we can enjoy at the cost of putting up with MS's interference.

 

This isn't Windows. They can't force it on us as a means to operate our hardware so they have to pander to us in some way or they won't make any money.

You should probably stop development of Forge as M$ is firmly against modding (hell, it is even in Xbox TOS).

 

There's no need to jump to such conclusions. Microsoft have been neglectful, even abusive; to PC gamers in the recent past, it's true. Although Phil said in June that he wants to win-back Windows gamers (don't know what this means for Linux/Mac of course but that's not the point, these systems are not exactly designed for gaming anyway). Additionally, two Microsoft re-releases on Steam - Age of Empires II HD and Rise of Nations Extended Edition both have full Steamworks integration. As a former modder and player of both these games in the distant past; I can confirm that both these titles are just as mod-able as they originally were - if not more so.

 

Castrating all modding capability from Minecraft would not be a good move in Microsoft Studios' attempts to redeem themselves in the PC gaming industry. Also consider the underwhelming success of the latest console generation, and the re-emergence of PC gaming. There's a lot of variables here.

 

I recognize the fear and danger for the modding scene from this acquisition, but I can't be so quick to see this as the beginning of the end - not yet anyway. Call me a foolish optimist if you like, I just don't think it's as definite or fatal as so many people are assuming. Yet.

 

For all we know, Microsoft could port Minecraft to C# and work on a full-fledged official API and turn Minecraft into an augmented reality simulator or training tool (EDIT: for people to learn C# programming I mean). There are many ways to make money, that's just one example Minecraft is too unique a product to predict the dimise of it with generic parallels. It's far too early to tell what will happen.

If MS do end up changing things to much or locking down modding, what about one of the opensource alternatives such as Terasology? They're all small at the moment and there's a lot of hate for MC clones but this is a none profit opensource version rather than a cheap rip of.

*If* Minecraft modding should die (big if, personally I doubt that this will happen) then you could also look at http://minetest.net/ which is looking more promising then Terasology IMHO.

Thank you for answering our questions here.

 

I'm a donor and I'd really like to continue donating - especially at a time like now. As far as you're aware, can I continue donating to yourself and other modders in the way I have been? Ie on Patreon, PayPal, etc.

 

Note: I'm talking about good-faith donations here. Not the purchase of access to content on servers.

ADMIN NOTICE

 

@OP: I've done you a favour and inserted Lex's answers to questions 1-9 into the original post.

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@Lex: There's still questions 10-16, if you're up to it

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@everyone else: Just a friendly reminder from your friendly local forum admin

 

Keep this thread civil. Show some respect to all parties involved. Yes, including Microsoft, no matter how much you detest and loathe the company. Drama-mongering will get you an instant ban from the forums. You're okay to have your personal opinion, but don't start fights. If you want to fight, take things to PM. The moderators will be keeping this thread as clean as possible.

 

 

[/end admin notice]

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My own question: Lex, since cpw has left, will you be taking on people to help with PR processing/other things relating to Forge itself?

*If* Minecraft modding should die (big if, personally I doubt that this will happen) then you could also look at http://minetest.net/ which is looking more promising then Terasology IMHO.

Minetest does look pretty interesting too. The only reason I suggested Terasology over it was because Terasology is built on Java where I think Minetest is C++ & Lua. It does have an established Modding API already though, it depends on the love of Java really, I know personally as a modder I'd rather stick with Java then swap to LUA, but it could be a valuable learning experience.

 

Maybe even a brand new opensource engine built from scratch with all Forge mods in mind, though that could take a lot of time! Who knows!

10) Are you going to stop working on Forge / anything minecraft related?

At this time, I have no plans to stop. Forge is very important to me for many reasons. The main thing tho, is that with fewer people to help me it will take me more time. As I will be taking more frequent breaks to try and find/train helpers.

11) How do you feel about the Microsoft takeover?

I have mixed feelings, this could be bad, or it could be status quo for me. Microsoft could come in and wave it's lawyers around and destroy me. Or they can wait a year or two until they have a replacement in place before doing that. Only time will tell which road they go down.

12) Do you think the change will hold back modded minecraft? will it hold us to an older version say 1.8 ?

I am of two minds on this one. The changes in 1.8 are massive, but they have use. They may be partially implemented/broken, but Forge is no stranger to fixing where Mojang leaves off. This has been how modding has gone for the last 2 years. My plan is to continue updating for as many MC versions as I can until Microsoft stops me. So that when it ends, the MC community has all the best MC and Forge features available to them. And when that time comes, the more options modders/users have the better. So ya.. I hope this does not hold any modders back from updating. But it's the community a strong breeze could hold 1/2 of them back

13) How do you feel about all the “big shot” modders leaving the modding-scene?

Modding for most people is a hobby, if it no-longer becomes enjoyable, there is no reason not to leave. As a fellow programmer I respect their wishes and wish them nothing but luck in the future. However if they DO have a large project I would HOPE they either leave it in someone else's hands, or leave it as open source in the community. So we don't have shit like RedPower and that dissapearing act -.-

14) How does it feel to be the only real modding platform left? (With bukkit going away)

It makes me want to run away screaming. Because of the shear amount of work that I have to do. It was convenient having Bukkit there because a abstraction layer IS 100% NEEDED for this community. Bukkit and Forge lived in harmony for the most part. I did not need to provide that solution because it already existed. Now that it is gone Forge needs to put something in its place. And that is a massive amount of work -.- The Sponge Project is trying to do something along those lines, however the more I see how it is going, the more I don't like it. It's the standard "Too many chiefs not enough indians" problem.

15) Do you think Microsoft would buy Forge or other modding platforms, like Mojang  did with Bukkit?

I HIGHLY doubt it, Why pay for something you get for free and have the ability to retroactively destroy when your new solution is ready? The major difference here, is that Microsoft has the talent {well the money to buy the talent} and the experience to pull off a plugin system. Mojang did not. They tried to acquire the talent by acquiring Bukkit. It didn't quite work out.

16) What will happen if Microsoft decides to move Minecraft to a different programming language?

Depends on the language. It would almost garentee to destroy modding. MC being in Java is one of it's STRONGEST assets. Java is easily linked against/decompiled. Java is a rather simple and forgiving language as well so it allows a lot of kids to become 'modders' {see my rants on how most modders are not programmers u.u different story} All of these 'modders' would die off because any other system/language would be too hard. You'd come back to a community with a few REALLY awesome mods. And almost no minor ones.

I have looked through the twitterz and through the forums and haven't seen anyone breathe this question, maybe because it's so obvious and i am just dumb. Now that the news is official, are you still planning on releasing forge for 1.8?

 

I saw Lex mention about keeping modding to 1.8 and below, which hinted at the release, but he also tweeted he wanted to get the release out before the announcement, which hinted at it not being released. I dunn know.

 

Maybe it's just not ready? (Coding is tough shiet, my brain would explode), in that case, no rush (Not that i could ever inspire anything in any of the forge team except annoyance </3)

 

Anyways, love your guys/gals' stuff! You work so hard and are so awesome. Stay metal and good luck

As I first saw the news I was pretty shocked...

But I think at this moment everybody is pretty much overreacting.

Yes Microsoft has Lawyers and yes the change they bring is really dangerous for the modding and server community.

But MS literally just spend 2.5 BILLION Dollars on a game that is driven by its status in the world and by its community and they will do their very best to not screw this up. It seems like they are aiming for the Eduacautional sector of Minecraft because thats the best way to get their money back.

They could always hire programmers to create a plugin system and if they do so they would propably destroy any other abstraction layer, but they cant create the mods. There would just be a plugin system that nobody uses, but only when we modders DONT use it...

It is important that we never us such systems as a community because that would be the only way to stop such things.

I myself will always continue modding and will use forge as long as it continues to exist.

If forge is ever going to be stopped I will stay with the last version of it and continue modding in an outdated version of minecraft. But I am never going to use any MS plugin system.

I would totally like to help coding forge but I am afraid I don't have the time or the experience for doing so.

But I am happy to see that you, Lex are continuing and I wish you and the whole modding comunity the best luck you can get.

Haha finally got around to building a computer more than capable of minecraft and then mozy on over to here to find this uproar. Life is a fickle thing

 

But this leaves me wanting to ask a question- Is there any way we(modders) can help push forge development along? Seeing the team weakening(no offense, just an observation based on quantification not qualification) surely must mean that the community can give back to the people that have given so much. Does this mean open slots for forge development>?

Haha finally got around to building a computer more than capable of minecraft and then mozy on over to here to find this uproar. Life is a fickle thing

 

But this leaves me wanting to ask a question- Is there any way we(modders) can help push forge development along? Seeing the team weakening(no offense, just an observation based on quantification not qualification) surely must mean that the community can give back to the people that have given so much. Does this mean open slots for forge development>?

Forge is pretty open. Anyone can submit PRs.

I will be taking more frequent breaks to try and find/train helpers.

 

Where do I sign up? I'm an unemployed programmer and systems analyst with over 20 years' experience. I'm looking to add skills, references etc while continuing to hunt for paying work. I live in the Portland area (Vancouver), and I was also on Kumoricon staff (saw your tweets, but too late to suggest a meeting).

 

Have beer, will travel.

 

I am compelled to join forums of all mod/plugin sites having witnessed my beloved Bukkit and Spigot go down, my plea to developers; get together, make a new game from your existing mod and plugin ideas. Do it before Microsoft does 'bork things up', as mentioned here at Forge. Do it before they try to copy what you've already done. Do it before they try to scare you off doing it; remember that Infiminer was a blocky game existing before Minecraft; it's quite legit to make another blocky game. Make it different enough; with your modding ideas as they are now, it's totally different enough already!

You DO own copyright to YOUR IDEAS. As in the components of your mods that were not created by Mojang. It DOES NOT MATTER what agreement you clicked on to be allowed to mod Minecraft; especially if any of you were under 18 at the time of agreeing (that agreement is then null and void). And terms of agreements are often too confusing to be legally binding. Also, the agreement with Mojang was mainly about letting them use your ideas, rather than about you using them, except in now allowing you to sell them. So you can ergo use them in other creations of your own.

I beg you to get together on this mission as soon as you can, and while you still have the audience you have. I will help all I can. I'm not a modder, but I am a phenomenal digital artist and a journalist; let me help with anything that I can. Send me a PM if you need help. Form a group that co-owns the new game, so that it is not owned by an individual, and therefore is not in the same danger of being sold off.

And good luck.

But please, add a boss mob called The Notcher, which steals your stuff. I wanna take it down...